Looking for O-scope suggestions / reviews

Well, it's the beginning of a new decade. And I'm thinking it may be time to replace some of my 2-3 decade old test equipment.

I've survived for the last 20+ years with a trusty old 20 MHz Hitachi V-212 scope. It's been a good piece of equipment, but it's starting to get a little flaky and it's lack of bandwidth and modern features gets kind of depressing sometimes. :(

Money is kind of scarce around here these days so I can't afford any real high dollar stuff, but I've been eyeballing this 60MHz B&K Precision 2534..
http://www.bkprecision.com/products/...534_manual.pdf

Honestly, I don't even know what kind of features to look for in a "modern" digital 'scope these days. Decent bandwidth, and storage capability... and what else?

Does anyone have any "reviews" for digital scopes in the under $1K price range?

Any particular features to look for?
Any particular brands I should stay away from?

Any suggestions at all before I blindly plunk my money on the table..? :eek:


Thanks!

steve

Here are a couple short beginners buyers guide/tutorial on oscilloscopes. I chose the cheaper one (25 mhz), and I have been pretty happy with it. Also, it doesn't use much space in the work room. The price was good too.

These might be too much for beginners, but maybe they will be useful to others.

Tutorial 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIfo_-d82Co

Tutorial 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUIgAu3QQWQ

Tutorial 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_KuGEh0PyA

http://www.saelig.com/miva/graphics/...pds5022725.jpg
OWON two channel scope 25mhz color display digital scope under $300.00
http://www.saelig.com/PSBEB100/PSSA002.htm

Owon two channel scope 60mhz color display digital under $500.00
http://www.saelig.com/PSBEB100/PSSA004.htm

Thanks for the links.

So how do you like the Owon scope? How long have you had it? Anything you dislike about it?
Does it seem well made, and like it might actually last for a decade or two?
I've had some really poor luck in the last few years with low priced imported (china) equipment, so I'm a little leary about some of that stuff these days. I know some of it is good quality and a great value, but there's also a lot of horrible junk out there too and I've owned some of it...

I've been thinking about my past, present, and possible future uses for a scope, and if I can get a new scope to last for 20 years, then it will probably be the last one I ever buy... because by then I'll be 70, and as quickly as my eyesight is failing I imagine my electronics career will be over by then unless they start making the parts way bigger again.. :(

I got my first scope in 1974 (an ancient Dumont, packed full of vacuum tubes and had a 4" round screen) and I used it for 4 years.
I got my second scope in 1978 and I used it for 11 years.
I got my 3rd scope in 1989 and have used it for 21 years (so far)
I want my next one to last *at least* 40 years. :)

Thanks for your input!


steve

I have a nice desktop digital scope with a color LCD, but I use my Velleman handheld scope far more often. In fact, I probably use it 95% of the time that I don't need dual signal display. The convenience of the small size is well worth it. The newer ones have better resolution, but even the older low res models are very helpful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Byte_Butcher

So how do you like the Owon scope? How long have you had it? Anything you dislike about it?
Does it seem well made, and like it might actually last for a decade or two?
I've had some really poor luck in the last few years with low priced imported (china) equipment, so I'm a little leary about some of that stuff these days. I know some of it is good quality and a great value, but there's also a lot of horrible junk out there too and I've owned some of it...

steve

---

Steve,
It seems you will be hard pressed to find ANY electronic equipment last 20 years these days, regardless of the origin. :(

FWIW, I also have a cheap Owon, and it's fine. I got one with the battery, but because of the Velleman I've never used it unplugged. It is not as good as the Tek's, but far better than the 80's B&K crt it replaced. Plus, it's so cheap that even if you do have to replace it in 10 years, you'll get a better one and still spend less than the current cost of a name-brand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Byte_Butcher

Thanks for the links.
So how do you like the Owon scope? How long have you had it? Anything you dislike about it?
Does it seem well made, and like it might actually last for a decade or two?
I've had some really poor luck in the last few years with low priced imported (china) equipment, so I'm a little leary about some of that stuff these days. I know some of it is good quality and a great value, but there's also a lot of horrible junk out there too and I've owned some of it...

---

I have had it for about a year now. It seems pretty well built to me. I only use it occasionally. I think you will love how compact it is compared to the tube scopes, and you can lift it with a pinky easily, compared to a dislocation on the older scopes...

I am far from an advanced user. Much more of a beginner, so you probably want some more input about it and it's capabilities. I previously had one of the Fluke portable scopes (older model 95?). I really like having separate colors for each channel like on the Owon. I can't seem to get their USB software to download the image to work, but it might be my lovely Vista, and not a fault of the scope. I have not really needed it yet, but I thought it would be cool, especially to share on the forum if the need arose.

I could see getting many more years out of it, as long as there are no unexpected smoking components. But I guess you never really know. I looked for a review on the Owon, but had trouble finding any.

The BK you mention seems to have about 4x the sampling rate, and many more features. But it is over twice the price. Probably a slightly better build to.

See Oscilloscope MHz recomend
2005 post.


Norm

Thanks Norm, I was tempted by the digital/analog 2522C. Just couldn't quite squeeze $1200 out of my wallet. I was tempted also by the (full digital) Agilent 1002A, which was also $1200.

But it's a done deal now. I read the users manuals and whatever reviews I could locate for every scope I could find for < $1200 USD.
Agilent, Owon, Rigol, Techtronics, and B&K all had offerings that tempted me

In the end I decided to go with the B&K 2534 for $719.
When it gets here, I'll give a full report.

Thanks to everyone for your input!


steve

The UPS man brought me a pile of new toys last week. :)
Got myself a Fluke 287 "True RMS" voltmeter, which so far I think I'm gonna like a lot but I need more time to play with it and learn all of it's features.

I also got a Aven "Digital Mighty Scope", in hopes that it would help me see some of those SMD parts I work with. It's a neat item. The software is a little quirky but it's OK. I think it will be a handy tool. Even with a 10x loupe it's tough for me to read the numbers on a 0603 resistor, but the mighty scope makes it REAL easy. Here's a screen shot of the thing at near max magnification.
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/swee...closeup_01.jpg
You can sure see those tiny little solder balls around the pins. That board needs a good scrubbing! The resistor in the lower right corner is 0603 and I can actually read the value. Woohoo!
Kind of pricey at nearly $200 but I think it'll be a handy tool.

The 3rd item is my new B&K 2534 O-scope.
I'm afraid I'm not very happy about it so far, but in the spirit of fairness I'm going to contact B&K and give them a chance to redeem themselves before I post my review. We'll see how it goes.

Mmm. my work bench has that New Equipment Smell. I love it. :)

steve

I'm unimpressed. The LCD screen is all filthy dirty on the backside of the glass, the cooling fan howls when it's cold, and the controls just don't really work very well.

Here's my review... :(
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/swee...anewscope.html

I haven't got any response to my email to B&K a few days ago. (??WTF??)
Digikey was good enough to respond though and sent me an RMA number so I can send this junk back.

The search for a decent scope continues. I don't know whether to drop my price range and try one of the REALLY cheap chinese scopes (I've really had my fill of cheap chinese trash), or up my price range and try and find something more... professional.

But the B&K didn't cut it so now I have to start all over again. Sigh...


steve

Kind of new are USB scopes which display on your PC or Laptop.
It's a small box that has BNCs for your input probes, and a USB connection to your PC for Power Setup and display.
Some of them seem to be fairly inexpensive.

Most are bundled with software, which to me is what really determines it's functionality.
Some have Basic display capability, and you purchase add on modules.
I've never tried one in practice, but it might be a nice alternative.

Has anyone evaluated one of these devices?
Certainly the brainpower exists in this forum to develop one?

I've looked at USB scopes, and I actually borrowed one for a few days a couple of years ago, but I didn't really like it well enough to buy one.

My biggest complaint is that my computer is busy enough already. When I'm working, I've often got schematics and PCB layouts open on screen, maybe a data sheet or 2, Microcode Studio, and who knows what else.
My computer is BUSY and there just ain't room on screen for it to play 'scope too...

If I had a spare laptop laying around, that might be different.

Besides, I like my scope to be "self contained" so it's easily portable.
It's a neat concept, and I'm sure a lot of folks love 'em, but I think they just don't suit my work style.

steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scalerobotics

I can't seem to get their USB software to download the image to work, but it might be my lovely Vista, and not a fault of the scope.

---

I was able to get the software for the OWON scope working with Windows 98.

Here is an image. It had a little more resolution before I jpg'd it:

http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/atta...1&d=1264568200

http://www.picbasic.co.uk/forum/atta...4&d=1279345692
After reading Byte_Butcher's review of the B&K, I like my scope even more!

Steve,
If you don't make it in the hand crafted goodies market, you might try Consumer Reports, Great review of that scope.

Walter,
You are doing a great job of making me think about that OWON scope, You got win98se to recognise it ? I just bought an HP1006 cheapo laser printer that is supposed to work, to no avail, won't set up as USB, and that's all it is. Maybe time to donate my old Tecktronics RM31A to The Smithsonion, all 80 pounds of it. . . Thing is I bet the OWON won't keep the shop warm at night like my RM31A does :D

One possible nice feature of the USB/PC scope or perhaps any USB enabled scope (Like that screen cap from the Owon Scope) is the ability to view it on a large screen monitor. Could make life easier on someone with vision impairment........

Steve, Thanks for the review.... I just noticed that the B-K scope also has a USB. Is it able to display the scope on the PC monitor?

-Bob

Bob,
Yes, the B&K is supposed to be able to display to a computer screen also. And I believe you can control it from the computer. There was some a software disk from "COMSOFT" for that purpose. I never got that far in my testing. It's boxed up now and ready to go away.

I DID use the "print" button a few times, which worked good. It prints a BMP screen shot to a USB storage device. That worked great, but I didn't get around to trying a direct 'scope to computer connection.

Walter, I'm glad you got the USB working on the Owon. It's getting more tempting all the time.

steve

Just for the record....I can't seem to get the USB working on Ole Brutus either:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_vEhjpGGusOY/S2...640/Brutus.JPG


Bob

I loved seeing the old Tek. I just recently had the chance to put my old single channel Tek scope back into useful service. I know a couple of guys that are into tube guitar amps. They are learning to change old capacitors and test tubes and things like that and are eager to learn because of their beloved hobby. I find myself answering questions for them and am excited to be passing little bits of the torch. The audio spectrum fit nicely into the scope's range and gave someone a chance to see into a new world.

Bo

No USB here either. :cool:

http://home.earthlink.net/~rmteo/sit...ures/a_68x.jpg

That old Tek 502 was given to me for by an aquaintance.
It was stored in a humidity free clean room for nearly 35 years.
It was installed in a custom instrument rack that was never actually used.
When I got it about 15 years ago, it was basically brand new and still shiny.
Even the fan filter was shiny.
The beam is extremly fine and shows a lot of detail.

Takes a good 30 to 45 minutes to warm up but once it does it performs very nicely. Sometimes I need to work the switches back and forth a few times but it never fails me.

I also love that old Hp oscillator.....Especially the humm that it sings along at whatever frequency it's outputting

Bob

OMG!

My very first scope was a 502 Dual beam scope JUST like that one!

Mine wasn't nearly so pretty. It was kind of banged up and had a hard life, but it worked just fine. The calibration wasn't even too bad once it had warmed up for an hour...

I paid $20 for it, very used at Mike Quinn Electronics back in about 1975-76.

The dual beam CRT is a neat thing. It's got 2 electron guns and it can display both traces without any need to "alternate" or "chop". :cool:

Yours is in beautiful condition!


steve

Of course the downside is that it's 3 feet deep and weighs over 50 lbs.

It has two suitcase handles on top to be able to lift it.

I really do take pride in owning it, but unfortunately my garage is not nearly as as good of an environment, as the instrumentation storeroom at the Ford Rouge River plant.

It was to be a part of a split film anemometry system for measuring the minute high frequency dynamic fluctuations in aerodynamic flow around automobiles.

Shortly after it was designed, a company named TSI began to manufacture off the shelf laboratory multi-axis split film anemometry systems, that were far better than Ford's home brew system. So they purchased one of the TSI systems and that's how this scope became the store room queen.

I think I've found a new home here at PB Forums, because most people I know just think that it's old junk.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WOZZY-2010

I think I've found a new home here at PB Forums, because most people I know just think that it's old junk.

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No. not junk! It's a beautiful old piece of equipment, designed and built with pride to last a lifetime. With good care that thing will last longer than any of us.

Remember the VW in the Woody Allen film "Sleeper"?
Someone will dig that thing up 5000 years from now, plug it in and it'll still work fine after it's warmed up for 20 minutes. They just don't make them like that any more.

If I could buy a new scope with all the "modern day features" (USB and all) and it was built to the same level of quality and durability that your 502 is... I'd buy it. And I wouldn't care if it was 3 feet deep and weighed 50 lbs.

Take good care of that one. It's a beauty. And the signal generator too.


steve

Walter,

You ordered your Owon from Saelig?

How was Saelig to deal with? Did they ship right away, no unexpected problems, etc?


Thanks!


steve

Hey Steve, yes I bought from Saelig. I think they shipped it within two days of purchase, then it took another week UPS ground from New York. Nothing bad I can say about the experience.

The scope was clean. Lots of plastic, but it feels pretty sturdy for the price. I like the feel of the dials, and all the buttons work! ;)

I think the battery model is exactly the same, only with .... a battery. So if you ever want to use it standalone without AC power nearby, you can buy the battery.

The USB connection is more of just a way to download a gif picture of what is on the screen. It has a "live" mode as well, but it is pretty choppy on the computer. I have not played around with the USB connection too much, except to show a few wave forms on the forum. It also has a way to download the datapoints from the wave form, but I have not tried that.

There is no fan to make noise. The probes are good enough, that I have not been tempted to swap my fluke probes over yet.

Thanks Walter. I sent them money this morning. Can probably expect another 'scope review in 10 days or so... :rolleyes:


steve

Steve,

Did you ever get that new O-Scope?

Bob W.

Yep. Got a new scope. Again.

It's been here for a week or more but I've been too busy to fool with it much. It might be another week before I get a chance to spend some serious time with it. :(

FWIW, I sent the B&K back to Digikey. Their Product Manager had a look at it and agreed that it was junk. It goes back to China.
Digikey refunded my money including tax and shipping. I love Digikey. I almost never have trouble with them and if I do they always make it good right away.

I ended up not getting the Owon. The lure of higher bandwidth and sample rates got me, and I got a Rigol DS1102CA instead. 100MHz, 2Gsa/s.
At $899 it was still inside my budget limit. I ordered it from Saelig and it shipped the same day.

Initial impressions are much better than with the B&K. The window glass was clean, the fan is quiet, and all the controls seem to work smoothly and predictably.
The only "problem" I've noticed so far is that the USB connection doesn't seem to work, but I haven't fooled with it enough to know if the problem is with the machine or the operator...

So far I've only used it to look at the serial data stream between PIC and a graphic LCD display. It seems to trigger reliably and show what I need to see.

Hopefully next weekend I'll get a chance to really put it to the test and get a feel for how well it works. Initial impressions are OK so far.


steve

Steve,

I just checked it out on the web and it looks really nice.

Nothing like a new toy...errr tool with lots of buttons to play with.

Bob W.

I went with the times about a year ago & sold my Tektronix for 100 notes & paid out 120 notes for a Hantek DSO-2150 - digital storage Oscilloscope.

It knocks spots off the my old scope - built in storage, auto measurement (peak to peak, DC offset, frequency, duty cycle blah blah) - oh yeah, I rescued one helluva lot of bench space back too!

The only downside, is 'screen' real estate .....as a Byte_Butcher says- alt tabbing between the schematic, datasheet & scope can be a little tiring (I guess I could print out the schematic & datasheet though!)

Also the more visible 'digital noise' on the baseline trace isn't as aethetically pleasing as a luminescent scope trace - there's just something organic about a proper scope's trace.

Have to say though the Hantek (China) support has been fantastic - the developer listens to ideas and will facytor them in (thery're also quick to respond)

I finally spent some quality time with the Rigol DS1102CA last weekend.
I got the USB problem figured out (well, I didn't really "figure it out", but it works now), so everything appears to work correctly.

It's got a few "features" that irritate me a bit, but for the most part I like it a lot. This one is a keeper. :)

I'll post my review of it sometime later this week.


steve

Well, spring is here and I've been spending much of my free time tending the garden and fooling with deer fences and NOT playing with electronics...
But I've finally spent enough time with my new (again) scope to get comfortable with it and collect a few of my thoughts about it.

The B&K 2534 just didn't make the grade so I returned it and bought a Rigol DS1102CA. The Rigol isn't perfect, but I like it plenty well to keep it and use it. My scope quest has come to an end for now. :)

If anyone cares, here's my review of the Rigol:
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/swee...newscope2.html


steve

This one’s really quite amazing. It just feels like a quality scope. All the button indents are really quite high quality. The button presses, the screen. The screen is really good. But it’s got a nice bright LED back light. It’s almost too bright really and it’s a big step up form their previous series. Other things are a really nice carry handle which locks into place. You have got some real nice sturdy feet which snap out into position like that. It’s got a USB host. Very important. It also you to plug in a memory stick, get screen captures and takes a few seconds to do boot up. One of the, I guess really the main annoying aspect which I have is that it does actually have a fan.